Transcript
Alex Smith: Design Leader Insights is brought to you by Fuego UX. Fuego UX is a leading UX research, strategy, and design consultancy. Hey Allie, thanks so much for joining the show today.
Allie Vogel: Hey, thanks so much for the invite.
Alex Smith: Yeah, for sure. And I'm glad you can do it from Buenos Aires. That's such a cool place. But before we get to that I'd love to learn a little bit about your journey in UX?
Allie Vogel: Sure. So I started my career a little over 10 years ago. I first joined a product team and a tech company. Actually, my first job out of college, which was at LinkedIn. And that was such an amazing experience to learn from, honestly, just like some of the best people in the field. And that was in San Francisco and in Silicon Valley. And after a few years, I love San Francisco and I love LinkedIn, but, you know, as someone who grew up in California, it was time for me to spread my wings and see another part of the world. So I actually ended up going to Tel Aviv for what I thought would be like a one year adventure that turned into seven. And while living there, I worked at some Israeli startups that ended up going public. I worked at BookMe.com when they started a new AI development center in the city. And then I also most recently worked at Microsoft for four and a half years. So that is my overarching career adventure. And most recently started my own product design consultancy and studio called Flexxi. So that's a little bit about myself about my career on a personal level, like I said, I'm from California, so I, I always kind of stuck to the accent a little bit, no matter where in the world I lived. But today you can find me in Buenos Aires temporarily as I'm working on Flexxi with a local partner here and growing out a team.
Alex Smith: Nice. Yeah. Tell us more about that. Buenos Aires is so cool.
Allie Vogel: Yeah. Buenos Aires is so cool. So I never imagined that I would be here for however long or short of an amount of time I actually am. It's an amazing city because it's very European. There's a lot of people of, you know, European ancestry, but it also has that Latino flair as well. And I think more than anything, it is just full of creativity. I think that oftentimes when you get into countries that, you know, are in a bit of turmoil of some sorts, whether it be political or economic, people just find ways to be so creative. So the designers that I've worked with here are just unbelievable and just have surpassed my expectations by, by all means, and it's just a cool city in general. So I'm really enjoying myself, both on a professional level, but also on a personal level as well.
Alex Smith: Yeah. I want to, I think something that I want to talk about is like a trend that we noticed during COVID and after COVID definitely an increase in nearshoring, I think like Mexico, Costa Rica, Columbia. Argentina, Uruguay, like tons of Brazil, of course, tons of design talent in these places. I'm wondering how you recommend people go about finding like talented individuals in South Central America and a little bit more about that process?
Allie Vogel: So I think first and foremost, you have to ask yourself the question, why do you want to outsource this kind of work? For me, it actually wasn't about cost at all. It was really about quality and hiring the best talent. So it just so happened that as I was starting my journey into building Flexxi, it all started with that one freelance client that grew and grew and grew. And at the time I was, you know, still working at Microsoft and I had this client that came to me that just wanted a little help coaching their design team because they weren't sure, you know, why products weren't shipping the way they would have expected them to and they didn't really know how to evaluate whether their designers were strong or not. So it was easy enough, just a couple hours a month. I said, okay. And as I started to work with that team, the scope grew. And a lot of this team was actually based in Buenos Aires. So as the scope grew and obviously I had a full time job, I couldn't be, you know, ditching out design work for another company I actually called on a friend of mine who started out as a mentee and she was based in Buenos Aires and she had actually just left the job that I had met her at. And the reason for that was because she actually wanted to work with the local team. So I told her, her name is Jules Newland. I told her Jules, I have this really cool opportunity for you if you want to collaborate. This client of mine they're looking for help in terms of really up leveling their team and you're a great designer. You have so much talent and it's a local team. It's exactly what you want. Why don't you join me for just this three month project while you're looking for another job and then the project will be over and we'll be on our way. So eventually, because the team was based in Buenos Aires, well, they're not fully based here. They have a presence here, but a lot of their market is here. We started to call upon other designers that were in the area, mostly because Jules, she runs a design community here called La Diseñaria and through her connections we were able to grow the team here. So my number one advice to your question is if you're looking to expand in a particular geographical region, bring on a local partner. That's going to help you a lot. So it doesn't necessarily mean just because you're hiring in Mexico or Costa Rica or Argentina that you're going to have less expensive talent, but what you're really doing is you're just opening up the world to work with more talent as opposed to just, you know, in certain geographical regions. First of all, if you're building a product and you're trying to expand into LATAM, you definitely have to think about the different cultures that you're building for.
Alex Smith: Yeah.
Allie Vogel: And a great example of a company that's done this really well is Nubank. So Nubank was started by David Bezos. He is Brazilian. He went to Stanford Business School. And actually his first market was Brazil and he was really successful in Brazil because he understood he had to build a product for Brazilians. And so he didn't think like, okay, I need to build a product as a Colombian coming from the US that's very America centric to Brazil. He said, no, I need to solve the problem for Brazilians. And then when he extended to Mexico, he, well, his team, they understood that the way that Mexicans deal with finances It's very different than Brazilian. So when he expanded there, or when the team expanded there, they understood that, yeah, okay, it's Latin America, but they don't speak the same language. The culture is completely different. And the way they actually interact with products and the mentality around it, because the economics are just so different. And Mexico has, you know, such a close relationship with the US. So there's a lot of US influence in Mexico, whereas Brazil is an island. Brazil is very Brazil focused. And then when they expanded into Colombia, which I believe is their third market. Again, Spanish, Mexico, Colombia, it's the same, right? Well, no, not at all, because the vernacular is different. The way, again, people's relationships to their financials are very different. Now we're starting to see that in order to be successful in these other markets, you do have to localize. So thinking not just about the language itself, but the cultural, the culture and the cultural implications behind it.
Alex Smith: I'd love to learn what advice you have for new designers that may be entering the field today.
Allie Vogel: So one thing that I have seen that was really big when I was starting out my career is around the portfolio, actually. And I think that this is something that designers always ask me about. So I'm going to get really technical here and not give some general advice like, oh, you know, just keep trying things and do your best to tell you how you should approach the portfolio. So, when I was just getting into design, the portfolio was all about process. So it was all about, you know, creating those user personas and, you know, going through the double diamond and then, you know, showing a few screens at the end. But today that's kind of I mean, it's still relevant, but I think people just have less time. And when they look at your portfolio, they're oftentimes going to go straight to the visuals. So of course, in your own process, you want to make sure you understand who the persona is, you know, do the research necessary, do your wireframing, go to high fidelity. But if you're trying to get hired as a designer, and you're saying that I'm someone who designs human centered products and I give that wow effect, show it. Show the wow effect. So I would encourage new designers, and this is a mistake I often see, they're not spending enough time on really polishing the visuals. And there are so many tools out there. In case you're not the best visual designer, in case that's a skill set you're still working on in order to have a really polished portfolio. So my advice to new designers is when you're looking to be a freelancer, when you're looking to get your first job, of course, The process is something that should always happen in the background, but make sure to really polish your visuals. Make sure to give the audience of who's looking at it that, wow, this person can really deliver. And I think that will really set you apart as a junior or a new designer.
Alex Smith: Yeah, I think it's so true. I think a lot of designers hate that, that, that, the idea that UX can be boiled down to the visuals, but you have 10 seconds to make an impression when people are looking through 50, a hundred portfolios. So I think that's extremely spot on Allie, thanks so much for joining the show today and I'm wondering where people can go to learn more or follow you.
Allie Vogel: So if you want to learn more about myself or about Flexxi feel free to follow us on linkedin we are Flexxi design. That's Flexxi with two x's and you can also connect with me on linkedin. I'm extremely responsive there. I'm always happy to share more information like with you and have a chat. It's always fun to meet people across the world.
Alex Smith: Yeah. Hell. Yeah. Well, thank you so much
Allie Vogel: Thank you. Thanks so much alex
